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Toyota Sportscar - Owners Group Norway 

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  • Generell diskusjon / "off topic" emner, media, annonser på Finn.no, video fra YouTube osv
Generell diskusjon / "off topic" emner, media, annonser på Finn.no, video fra YouTube osv
 #61313  av @lpher
 
Interesant artikkel skrevet av en av gutta i bransjen...noen som kjenner til om dette stemmer eller?


Artikkelen er for ordens skyld lånt fra mkivsupra.net:

@lpher

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Lubricating a modded car, some good advice!
If you are "modding" your Supra and adding BHP then consider your oil choice carefully as the stock manufacturers recommended oil will not give you the protection that your engine requires.

A standard oil will not be thermally stable enough to cope with higher temperatures without "shearing" meaning that the oil will not give the same protection after a couple of thousand miles as it it when it was new.

Let’s start with the fundamentals. An engine is a device for converting fuel into motive power. Car enthusiasts get so deep into the details they lose sight of this!

To get more power, an engine must be modified such that it converts more fuel per minute into power than it did in standard form. To produce 6.6 million foot-pounds per minute of power (ie 200 BHP) a modern engine will burn about 0.5 litres of fuel per minute.(Equivalent to 18mpg at 120mph). So, to increase this output to 300BHP or 9.9 million foot-pounds per minute it must be modified to burn (in theory) 0.75 litres.
However, fuel efficiency often goes out of the window when power is the only consideration, so the true fuel burn will be rather more than 0.75 litres/min.

That’s the fundamental point, here’s the fundamental problem:

Less than 30% of the fuel (assuming it’s petrol) is converted to all those foot-pounds. The rest is thrown away as waste heat. True, most of it goes down the exhaust, but over 10% has to be eliminated from the engine internals, and the first line of defence is the oil.

More power means a bigger heat elimination problem. Every component runs hotter; For instance, piston crowns and rings will be running at 280-300C instead of a more normal 240-260C, so it is essential that the oil films on cylinder walls provide an efficient heat path to the block casting, and finally to the coolant.

Any breakdown or carbonisation of the oil will restrict the heat transfer area, leading to serious overheating.

A modern synthetic lubricant based on true temperature-resistant synthetics is essential for long-term reliability. At 250C+, a mineral or hydrocracked mineral oil, particularly a 5W/X or 10W/X grade, is surprisingly volatile, and an oil film around this temperature will be severely depleted by evaporation loss.

Back in the 1970s the solution was to use a thick oil, typically 20W/50; in the late 1980s even 10W/60 grades were used. But in modern very high RPM engines with efficient high-delivery oil pumps thick oils waste power, and impede heat transfer in some situations.

A light or medium viscosity good synthetic formulated for severe competition use is the logical and intelligent choice for the 21st century.
You should seriously consider a "true" synthetic for "shear stability" and the right level of protection.

Petroleum oils tend to have low resistance to “shearing” because petroleum oils are made with light weight basestocks to begin with, they tend to burn off easily in high temperature conditions which causes deposit formation and oil consumption.
As a result of excessive oil burning and susceptibility to shearing (as well as other factors) petroleum oils must be changed more frequently than synthetics.

True synthetic oils (PAO’s and Esters) contain basically no waxy contamination to cause crystallization and oil thickening at cold temperatures. In addition, synthetic basestocks do not thin out very much as temperatures increase. So, pour point depressants are unnecessary and higher viscosity basestock fluids can be used which will still meet the "W" requirements for pumpability.

Hence, little or no VI improver additive would need to be used to meet the sae 30, 40 or 50 classification while still meeting 0W or 5W requirements.

The end result is that very little shearing occurs within true synthetic oils because they are not "propped up" with viscosity index improvers. There simply is no place to shear back to. In fact, this is easy to prove by just comparing synthetic and petroleum oils of the same grade.

Of course, the obvious result is that your oil remains "in grade" for a much longer period of time for better engine protection and longer oil life.

If you would like advice then please feel free to ask.

Cheers
Simon


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 #61314  av @lpher
 
En av follow-up postene hans inneholder endel viktig ting også:

@lpher

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I'm afraid picking a good oil is difficult due to the labelling of synthetics. The Mobil vs Castrol court gas in the US changed things forever I'm afraid.

I hope this will go some way to explaining why it's a minefield out there and you must be very careful!

Please take time to read this, it's important


Costs of synthetics vary considerably. The most expensive are the “Ester” types originally only used in jet engines. These cost 6 to 10 times more than high quality mineral oils.

The cheapest synthetics are not really synthetic at all, from a chemists point of view. These are in fact specially refined light viscosity mineral oils known as “hydrocracked”. These have some advantages over equivalent mineral oils, particularly in lower viscosity motor oils such as 5w-30 or other oils with a low “W” rating such as 5w-50 etc and they cost about 1.5 times more than good quality mineral fractions.

We use several different grades of this base oil, where appropriate. This is the “synthetic” which is always used in cheap oils that are labelled “synthetic”. Yes it’s a cruel world, you get what you pay for!

Now, you may ask, why are these special mineral oils called “synthetic”? Well, it was all sorted in a legal battle that took place in the USA about ten years ago. Sound reasons (including evidence from a Nobel Prize winning chemist) were disregarded and the final ruling was that certain mineral bases that had undergone extra chemical treatments could be called “synthetic”.

The marketing executives wet their knickers with pure delight! They realised that this meant, and still does, that the critical buzz-word “synthetic” could be printed on a can of cheap oil provided that the contents included a few percent of “hydrocracked” mineral oil, at a cost of quite literally a few pence.

So, the chemistry of “synthetics” is complex and so is the politics!

The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well-marketed can with “synthetic” printed on it, fair enough, it will not cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case. But, if you drive a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and maybe do the odd “track day”, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil, this oil costs more money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply, you always get what you pay for!


This article was written by John Rowland (Chief R&D Chemist of Silkolene/Fuchs) and I have his permission to publish it as his view is that people should be informed before they buy.

Cheers
Simon

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 #61343  av Erlend
 
Kjempeinteressant :) Er jo ganske logisk mye av det han skriver, og det er vel lett å bli blåøyd når nesten alle reklamerer med fullsyntetisk olje...

 #61586  av tahustvedt
 
Interressant! Hvordan kan jeg vite hva slags "syntetisk" oljen er? Går det an å lese av spesifikasjonene? Mener han kanskje forskjellen på delsyntetisk og fullsyntetisk? Mistenker at det er tilfelle.

 #61861  av @lpher
 
tahustvedt skrev:Interressant! Hvordan kan jeg vite hva slags "syntetisk" oljen er? Går det an å lese av spesifikasjonene? Mener han kanskje forskjellen på delsyntetisk og fullsyntetisk? Mistenker at det er tilfelle.
Mnei...er nok kun helsyntet han snakker om ja...

Er litt i tvil åssen man skal kunne finne det ut selv, i og med at de fleste fabrikantene ikke har innholdsfortegnelse på olja si..

@lpher

 #61882  av CelicaTurbo
 
vel, den fyren som har posten de greiene der er et kapittel for seg selv, han har valfartet diverse forum med den samme leksen i hvert eneste forum, men har tydelighvis ikke kommet til salgspoenget sitt i forumet hvor alpher har funnet dette enda.

Bare så det er klart; jeg betviler ikke hva teksten omhandler, det er ganske sikkert helt korrekt. Men grunnen til at fyren poster allt det der er at han markedsfører og selger en ester-basert olje som da er det ypperste innen syntetiske oljer, og ifølge ham er da oljemerket som han leverer den eneste som produserer fullstendig ester-basert olje så, hensikten med posten er så klart at folk skal kjøpe det merket pga at det er det eneste som duger av dem fullsyntetiske.. Det er så klart mulig at teksten alpher har funnet ikke er posten på forumet direkte av ham, men det er i så tilfelle limt inn fra et annet forum hvor denne fyren driver med markedsføringen sin ;) Angående hvilket merke han prøver å selge så husker jeg ikke, men det var et sært merke som jeg ikke hadde hørt om tidligere..

 #61904  av Erlend
 
Må ikke ta alt for god fisk nei :) Altså, er ikke vanskeligere enn å ta en telefon/sende en epost til Castrol e.l og spørre hva de anbefaler til en motor med så og så stor effekt?