TS-ogn

Xlr8 skrev:http://atsracing.com/Parts.mvc/Index/GT28RSKIT
med noen 550dyser og 3sge kammer så tror jeg du får et ganske greit oppsett
event en stål toppakning,
og en vannkjøt ic fra st205 funker nok veldigt greit.
+clutch.

vil du ha de "skuddsikkert" kjøp noen oppgraderte rådelager og veivlager, og behold resten orginalt,


min 2gen benka jeg til 290hk på hjula, med turbo xspower sitt kitt, vannkjølt ic fra st185, 255pumpe, hks luftfilter, øktbensintrykk, 3" eksos,
men tror ikkje jeg hadde kjøpt xspower sitt kitt igjen.

nye plugger, rotor fordelerlokk, bensinfilter, 98oktan bensin,
funka veldigt greit di måndene jeg hadde bilen

350hk oppsett basert på http://atsracing.com/Parts.mvc/Details/BU-TD06

andre må bare komme med innspill for dette er bare min mening etter og lest rundt på nettet:p

Fikk vel ut rundt 290 hk på hk på hjula jeg også på min aller første benking. Dette med splitter ny GT30 turbo, 3" eksos anlegg,komplett wolfkatz bensin system med dyser, rail, regulator, doble pumper og nye slanger & filter. Ny ic, datasprut osv.

Viste seg da at det var orginal kammene mine som gjorde at jeg ikke klarte å få ut mer. Kunne øke turbotrykket noe sinnsykt men effekten ble bare marginalt høyere likevel..

Slik ser 350 whp bygget til ATS ut ihvertfall:

350 whp complete build - TD06 based

330whp @ 17psi på standard bensin og 360 whp @ 20 psi på race-suppe.

Parts:

Item Description Qty Unit Cost Line Total
ATS throttle body inlet 1 65.00 65.00
ATS TD06 + dual map rom tune combo kit 1 3200.00 3200.00
blueprinted 550cc injectors (in combo kit) 4 0.00 0.00
ATS modified fuel rail (in combo kit) 1 0.00 0.00
Walbro fuel pump (in combo kit) 1 0.00 0.00
EGR block off plates 1 34.00 34.00
Greddy Profec B 1 319.00 319.00
HKS 264 cams 2 340.00 680.00
ATS adjustable cam gears 1 150.00 150.00
antifreeze 2 14.99 29.98
valve cover gaskets 1 42.00 42.00
camshaft seals 2 11.89 23.78
Apexi intake 1 150.00 150.00
ATS CV joints 1 299.00 299.00
gallon 110 Octane (tuning) 5 6.00 30.00
axle seal 2 17.99 35.98
CM stage 4 clutch 1 499.00 499.00
Berk Exhaust 1 699.00 699.00
Berk Intercooler 1 599.00 599.00
ATS ic shroud with 9" fan 1 169.00 169.00
oil 10w-30 4 1.99 7.96
oil filter - Toyota 1 7.99 7.99
transmission refill kit 1 59.00 59.00
Parts subtotal 7,174.69

Litt i underkant av 42 000 kroner ja, ser ut som dette må bli ett prosjekt over lengre tid. Mangler jo fortsatt styling, stereo osv i bilen, men det går vel ann å ta litt og litt og øke effekten gradvis?

vil fremdeles anbefale innsugsmanefoild og et ordentlig sprut. en ROM tune med de delene der gir deg ikke mulighet til å regulere noe som helst.. du er stuck med det resultatet du får. Hva nå enn det blir. syntes 350 hk på hjula virker litt optimistisk med 550cc dyser.. Rom tune blir litt sånn billigløsning, men hvorfor gå for en billigløsning når man skal koste på så mye i deler?

Blir som å kjøpe en ferrari for å delta i dragrace også sette svigermor til å være sjåføren. Sprutet er kanskje den aller viktigste delen du bytter ut når du skal øke effekten på motoren! Eneste fordelen er at du ivaretar all funksjonalitet og det er billigere. Er en del dilldall å få laget til et datasprut til å gjøre det samme som det som er der orginalt, og ikke minst kostbart. Men det er verd det

Men ellers ser den listen der forøvrig veldig greit ut de. Mulig jeg ville gått for en nyere og mer effektiv turbo, et ordentlig sprut, større dyser og innsugsmanefold og vanninnsprut kit (gjør underverker i å forebygge tenningsbank som er nr1. årsak til at du knuser motoren).

Vil ikke anbefale å ta det litt etter litt.. Dvs, du kan jo kjøpe delene litt etter litt, men jeg ville aldri f.eks satt på nye kammer og turbo f.eks, uten å sette på sprut. og dyser osv kan du ikke bytte uten først å bytte sprut f.eks. CV buret og slikt kan du jo bytte da. Turbo og forsåvidt, men da har du et system som potensielt kan gi deg mer effekt enn hva bensinsystemet klarer å levere til og du går magert og får tenningsbank. Så om du skal gå den ruten må du være ekstremt forsiktig!

Men ett av disse skikkelige datat sprutene som du snakker om koster ikke disse som faen og litt til? Mener å ha lest at ditt kostet 60k eller noe slikt? For den prisen kan man jo omtrent kjøpe seg en ekstra gen.3 og tune den rimlig bra. Og da har man jo i tillegg en motor ekstra

Toms_3S-GTE skrev:Men ett av disse skikkelige datat sprutene som du snakker om koster ikke disse som faen og litt til? Mener å ha lest at ditt kostet 60k eller noe slikt? For den prisen kan man jo omtrent kjøpe seg en ekstra gen.3 og tune den rimlig bra. Og da har man jo i tillegg en motor ekstra

om du skal ha noe som gjør motoren idiotsikkert så koster vel autronic rett under 20.000, mulig du får en eldre versjon for rundt 15. dette er noe de fleste vet å tune også.

Det som kostet mest med meg var selve oppkoblingen av sprutet, div feilsøking pga en del jordingsfeil og slikt i det elektriske anlegget som var der og fremforalt selve dynojusteringen. Koster vel fort 1500 kr timen med bilen på rullene. og om du skal ha et datasprut justert til 100% av potensialet til motoren din, samt ha den så kjørbar som orginalt så går det MANGE timer på dynoen!

Så må du kanskje justere kammene en hel rekke ganger underveis (kamdrevene) for å få riktig overlap og max effekt. Og så lenge bilen står på rullene så tikker timeoprisen avgårde mens kammer blir justert..

Jeg står fast ved at et ordentlig sprut er selve hjertet i en trimmet motor. Er ikke lurt å ta snarveier når man skal bygge motor. Rom tune er fint om man skal slenge på en større turbo og nye dyser og bare skru opp turbotrykket litt, og lar alt annet være orginalt.

Men om man skal bytte stempler, råder, lager, klutsj +++ slik som deg så må du jo ikke kutte ut det desidert viktigste!

F.eks så kan du ikke kompensere for graderte kammer ved en Rom tune, tabellene der er låst og du kan ikke forandre på dem..

Toms_3S-GTE skrev:

MRPETTER skrev:Men hvis du skal koste på alt det der, så skjønner jeg ikke hvorfor du satser på bare 300hk?

Er vel bedre å bygge det for mer effekt enn man skal ha i bilen enn å presse hver del til sitt ytterste eller ihvertfall i nærheten av sitt ytterste. Og hvem vet, kanskje jeg vil ha mer en gang i fremtiden

Sant det du sier der da:)
Kommer jo annpå hva du skal bruke den til; )
Jeg bygger motor med mye av de samme delene som du planlegger, men jeg satser på "mye" mer hester: )
Men da skal min brukes på bane osv. da;)

Angående pris for sprut er dette veldig varierende. Mitt (Apexi Power FC) ga jeg ca 5000 NOK for (via ebay). Dette er plug and play, og det virker som det ganske raskt og enkelt å programere...

Så Apexi Power FC Stand Alone EMS, Motec og Link G4 er bare søppel i forhold til Autronic?

Var disse systemene jeg hadde kikket på tidligere.

Bilen skal forsovid brukes som daglig bil på sommeren, stå i garasjen på vinteren og ta'es med på ett og annet treff i løpet av sommeren.

mr2storbrua skrev:Angående pris for sprut er dette veldig varierende. Mitt (Apexi Power FC) ga jeg ca 5000 NOK for (via ebay). Dette er plug and play, og det virker som det ganske raskt og enkelt å programere...

Og erfaringene med denne er bare gode erfaringer eller?

vil anbefale å sjekke nøye opp ang sprut, og ikke minst med tanke på hvem som skal mappe sprutet. Viktig at de som skal koble opp/mappe sprutet har peiling på dette sprutet..

Når det gjelder type sprut vil det variere alt ettersom hvem du spør. Det noen sier er søppel vil andre bare ha lovord om.
Så sjekk det opp nøye vil ikke is noe om hva jeg syntes er bra med fare for å trakke noen på tærne.

Autronic er iallefall helt på topp og ansett som det beste som er å få tak i. Blant de billigtere srutene er det mye kniving om hva som er bra og dårlig..

I bunn og grunn kan man få hva som helst til å funke da så klart. Jeg eksperimenterte jo en del med megasquirt tidligere. Et sprut man lodder sammen og bygger selv (kit). Fikk dette til å fungere greit men var langt ifra så bra som jeg ville ha det selv om det har de fleste funksjonene som dyrere sprut har. Valgte derfor å ta det vekk og sette på noe ordentlig

Kikka litt på dette også http://www.koracing.net/viewproduct.php ... roduct=100

Denne selges på også på mrcontrols.com som har den velkjente powerprimer'en som alle refererer til.

Denne med alle tilleggene ko-racing tilbyr havner på rundt 12k og har følgende spec i standard utgave:

• Easy installation on an MR2 Turbo
  Eliminates the stock air flow meter (AFM) and cold start injector
  User configurable 32x32 fuel and timing maps with selectable RPM and load points
  Two selectable 32x32 fuel and ignition offset maps for alternate fuels
  Directly supports the NGK L1H1 and L2H2 5-wire wideband oxygen sensor (additional cable required)
  Uses stock engine sensors including the distributor
  Launch control (2-step) and flat shift for drag racing applications (additional cable required)
  Controls the stock ignition or MSD 6 ignition setups
  Runs full sequential injection
  Supports full sequential ignitions (additional igniter adapter required)
  Operates all accessories including AC, power steering, cruise control and ABS
  Controls the TVIS, EGR, fuel pump volume and engine check light
  Uses the stock idle speed valve to provide a stable idle under different loads
  Internal 4-bar MAP sensor supports up to 45 psi boost
  Rev limit to 16,000 RPMs with adjustable soft (random miss) and hard (complete cut) rev limiters
  RPM adjustable knock detection threshold for detonation protection
  Adjustable fuel cut for overboost protection
  Jumper configurable to work with 91-92, 93-95 and genIII engines
  Uses stock narrowband oxygen sensor to maintain proper fuel mixture while idling and cruising
  Individual cylinder fuel and timing advance trims
  Quick connect 2-piece laptop cable can be easily routed to passenger cabin
  Windows-based tuning software (requires a laptop with a serial interface)
  On-board and laptop datalogging at adjustable timing rates
  Controls Aquamist 1S and 2C water injection setups
  Adjustable air and coolant temperature correction of fuel and timing
  Supports staged injection setups (additional injectors and cable required)
  Controls boost (boost control option required)
  Operates as a turbo timer (turbo timer option required)
  Comes with base maps to start most engine setups and drive them to the dyno for proper power tuning
  Controls any level of power from a bone-stock 170rwhp up to +600rwhp monstersEasy installation on an MR2 Turbo
  Eliminates the stock air flow meter (AFM) and cold start injector
  User configurable 32x32 fuel and timing maps with selectable RPM and load points
  Two selectable 32x32 fuel and ignition offset maps for alternate fuels
  Directly supports the NGK L1H1 and L2H2 5-wire wideband oxygen sensor (additional cable required)
  Uses stock engine sensors including the distributor
  Launch control (2-step) and flat shift for drag racing applications (additional cable required)
  Controls the stock ignition or MSD 6 ignition setups
  Runs full sequential injection
  Supports full sequential ignitions (additional igniter adapter required)
  Operates all accessories including AC, power steering, cruise control and ABS
  Controls the TVIS, EGR, fuel pump volume and engine check light
  Uses the stock idle speed valve to provide a stable idle under different loads
  Internal 4-bar MAP sensor supports up to 45 psi boost
  Rev limit to 16,000 RPMs with adjustable soft (random miss) and hard (complete cut) rev limiters
  RPM adjustable knock detection threshold for detonation protection
  Adjustable fuel cut for overboost protection
  Jumper configurable to work with 91-92, 93-95 and genIII engines
  Uses stock narrowband oxygen sensor to maintain proper fuel mixture while idling and cruising
  Individual cylinder fuel and timing advance trims
  Quick connect 2-piece laptop cable can be easily routed to passenger cabin
  Windows-based tuning software (requires a laptop with a serial interface)
  On-board and laptop datalogging at adjustable timing rates
  Controls Aquamist 1S and 2C water injection setups
  Adjustable air and coolant temperature correction of fuel and timing
  Supports staged injection setups (additional injectors and cable required)
  Controls boost (boost control option required)
  Operates as a turbo timer (turbo timer option required)
  Comes with base maps to start most engine setups and drive them to the dyno for proper power tuning
  Controls any level of power from a bone-stock 170rwhp up to +600rwhp monstersEasy installation on an MR2 Turbo
  Eliminates the stock air flow meter (AFM) and cold start injector
  User configurable 32x32 fuel and timing maps with selectable RPM and load points
  Two selectable 32x32 fuel and ignition offset maps for alternate fuels
  Directly supports the NGK L1H1 and L2H2 5-wire wideband oxygen sensor (additional cable required)
  Uses stock engine sensors including the distributor
  Launch control (2-step) and flat shift for drag racing applications (additional cable required)
  Controls the stock ignition or MSD 6 ignition setups
  Runs full sequential injection
  Supports full sequential ignitions (additional igniter adapter required)
  Operates all accessories including AC, power steering, cruise control and ABS
  Controls the TVIS, EGR, fuel pump volume and engine check light
  Uses the stock idle speed valve to provide a stable idle under different loads
  Internal 4-bar MAP sensor supports up to 45 psi boost
  Rev limit to 16,000 RPMs with adjustable soft (random miss) and hard (complete cut) rev limiters
  RPM adjustable knock detection threshold for detonation protection
  Adjustable fuel cut for overboost protection
  Jumper configurable to work with 91-92, 93-95 and genIII engines
  Uses stock narrowband oxygen sensor to maintain proper fuel mixture while idling and cruising
  Individual cylinder fuel and timing advance trims
  Quick connect 2-piece laptop cable can be easily routed to passenger cabin
  Windows-based tuning software (requires a laptop with a serial interface)
  On-board and laptop datalogging at adjustable timing rates
  Controls Aquamist 1S and 2C water injection setups
  Adjustable air and coolant temperature correction of fuel and timing
  Supports staged injection setups (additional injectors and cable required)
  Controls boost (boost control option required)
  Operates as a turbo timer (turbo timer option required)
  Comes with base maps to start most engine setups and drive them to the dyno for proper power tuning
  Controls any level of power from a bone-stock 170rwhp up to +600rwhp monsters

Anbefaler å lese denne for informasjon om Apexi Power FC: http://www.paulr33.com/powerfc-faq/powerfc-faq.htm

Han sammenligner også Apexi med andre alternativer:

paulr33 skrev:Why buy a PowerFC? Aren't they discontinued????
As everyone knows the PowerFC's future is in doubt. Apexi have had some financial issues and now there are delays with ordering models.
Some units have been scrapped and wont be made anymore. But nevertheless the are still thousands of second hand units on the market.
There are still plently of tuners around and still plently of workshops who support it. I am even trying to resurrect the RB20/RB25 powerfc by using an RB26 PFC and a custom loom.
So needless to stay its not like all the PowerFCs in the market will magically vanish or disappear tomorrow so keep on 'trucking'.

There are however some alternatives to the PowerFC on the market and we should not be biased here, as that is not fair.
I'm a proven Apexi PowerFC fan but like any ECU it has downfalls and bad sides, most things do.
So let's look at some of the alternatives and how they compare;
Greddy Emanage
HKS FCON
Apexi SAFC & SITC
Motec M800
Autronic
Haltech
Wolf 3d
Remapped ECU
Link


Below is some brief ntoes on each of the units and my thoughts / knowledge on the them.
This is by far no means of a techincal comparison or tuners views on each of them.
You should ALWAYS discuss any ECU choices with your tuner before you even start.



Greddy Emanage
The Greddy Emanage is a piggyback system onto the stock ECU.
That is, its a generic remapper for stock ECUs. So if you have a GTR, GTST, Evo, Subuaru etc the emanage can sort it out.
Its a stage 1 interceptor which intercepts IGN, INJ, and all the main sensors to control the car and let you "tune" the main system.
The stock ecu is still present so complex things like 4wd, traction control, abs systems etc work just as normal.
The unit needs a main harness to suit your car but the unit is generic so you can sell (or buy it from) it to anyone.
Once installed you can make relevant changes as needed such as airflow meter changes, AFR tuning, IGN timing etc.
There are some limits into the size of the injectors you can run and other changes as its an interceptor but all in all a good unit.
I have never been a fan on a remapper/interceptor but if I was going to choose one, the emanage would be the one.

HKS FCON
The HKS FCON is by far one of the more advanced and suprior ECUS for the japanese domestic market.
This bad boy suports EVERYTHING known to man and more than you can poke a stick at.
AFMS, Map sensors, twin kits, everything is virtually supported and it includes a 32bit ecu with 32x32 map area.
The HKS FCON has its drawbacks however, in Australia only one place can tune the FCON which is BD4's in Sydney.
SO if you live in Melbourne, forget it you can't touch jack shit on the ECU. There is a graphical FCON unit but I dont think its the equiv of the PFC hand controller.
The HKS FCON is locked to the HKS pro writer software so you can touch it with laptop software of your own hacking. Tuners need to be official HKS pro tuners to get the software. So if there are local HKS FCON tuners in your area go nuts, get it and enjoy, but for most there are no local HKS FCON tuners so its useless. Much like a mines ecu, no local tuners. I would love to try out this ECU and see how far and how much you could tune it, but sadly I cannot as I am not a certified HKS tuner (haha).

Apexi SAFC & SITC
These two little brothers are like pea's in a pod. You cant link them together directly but they give a good comprimise for standard ecu owners.
These two mates are favourable among the Auto market which the PFC does not support Auto cars (well nissan anyway).
Running both of these lets you bend IGN timing to your hearts content and make the ecu think your AFM is drunk to get some more power in and out.
All in all not a bad comprimise if you dont have a choice or cant go for a good supported stand alone (ie: auto ecu etc).
Cheap, cost effective and works well. You will be limited by this setup so be careful.

Motec M800
Enter SATAN. The bad boy of the ECU market that dominates all.
The Motec is a complete stand alone ECU for any car, any setup, any scenario.
You can choose inputs, outputs, engine control, batch or sequential fire, anti lag, fuel or spark cut, complete map control and 3rd dimension selection.
There is nothing the Motec cannot do. It is mainly used for rally and race cars but can be used on a street car. This ECU costs a fortune and is the ultimate stand alone ecu.
I would not recommend it for a mild skyline but you certainly can use it, it will just cost a lot. There are lots of local tuners so that shouldnt be an issue and everything is supported.

Autronic
I do not have much to say about the Autronic as I know very little about it. As far as I know its a stand alone mutli-purpose ECU to suit most cars.
It has good local technical support and a range of tuners as well. I believe you have options of AFM or Map sensor and it also enters the 3rd dimension letting you tune in 3d via Throttle Position Sensor (maybe others too?).
The Autronic has things like antilag, launch control and a few other cool features so its not a plain vanilla ECU. This is aimed at race/competition cars.

Haltech
I know jack shit about Haltech

Wold 3d
The Wold 3d has been one of the older generation ECUs for generic cars.
It has been locally supported and developed in australia for some time now. I think you get the choice for AFM or MAP so thats a bonus.
The newer Wold 3d v500 has extensive support for most of the comon features and extra stuff most users need, they say it even rivals motec/autronic.
I dont see any issues with running a wold 3d, but like most ECU's you need to find a range of good local tuners to sort it out for you.

Remapped ECU
Running a remapped ECU is cool and cost effective. It lets you tune the stock ecu (providing its supported and doesnt cost a bomb) and gives you good bang per buck.
You can support almost anything within reason, such as larger AFMS, bigger injectors etc and still retain factory control.
The main issue with remaps is you cant adjust jack shit once its remapped and most tunes are expensive each time as they do a complete burn of the chip.
Ie; its not like they can just change timing via a hand controller each time. The user also has no control or real time interaction with the tune.

LINK
I know jack shit about Link


So there you have it, a quick glance over some of the more common ECU's and what they have to offer.
If you disagree with any of these comments, please send me a pm on SAU or email me (paul@paulr33.com) and let me know.
I am happy to correct any incorrect info, mistakes or bad opinions. If you have an ECU you think should be on this list let me know also.