TS-ogn

Toyota Sportscar - Owners Group Norway 

  • Nok en "kjøpe Supra mkiv trÃ¥d"

  • Teknisk diskusjon / spørsmÃ¥l rundt Supra
Teknisk diskusjon / spørsmål rundt Supra
 #129209  av CeliNord
 
Har som sikkert mange andre drømt om supra siden jeg var liten, og
tenkte nå som økonomien står sterkere at man kan prøve seg å skaffe en.

Så litt japanauto og så litt mer spesifikt på denne:
http://www.japanauto.no/brukt/biler/23.htm

Så litt på prisene, og slik som jeg forstod det fikk man den på veien med skilt for 230 - 240 000? Er det noe problem å få registrert den?

De jeg har sett oppigjennom årene på autodb har logget i prisklassen
450 000,- Koster det så mye ekstra for å få en LHD? Eller er det noe
mer jeg har glemt?

Dere som har peiling. Så det ikke sto så mye specs på bilen, men er det
en grei pris for e RZ-S Twin Turbo Aut.? GÃ¥tt 115000, 95 modell.

Noen inspill? :oops:
 #129266  av @lpher
 
CeliNord skrev: Har som sikkert mange andre drømt om supra siden jeg var liten, og
tenkte nå som økonomien står sterkere at man kan prøve seg å skaffe en.
Go for it! :D
CeliNord skrev: Så litt japanauto og så litt mer spesifikt på denne:
http://www.japanauto.no/brukt/biler/23.htm
Så grei ut den :) Så ut som den var helt standard den (ikke trimma)..og det er det du bør lete etter...spørr du meg :)
CeliNord skrev: Så litt på prisene, og slik som jeg forstod det fikk man den på veien med skilt for 230 - 240 000? Er det noe problem å få registrert den?
Det er det sikker andre enn meg som kan svare bedre på :)
CeliNord skrev: De jeg har sett oppigjennom årene på autodb har logget i prisklassen
450 000,- Koster det så mye ekstra for å få en LHD? Eller er det noe
mer jeg har glemt?
Det er flere grunner til at JDM-biler er billigere....men en av de viktigste er at "eldre" biler er sterkt avgiftsbelagte i japan, såvidt jeg har forstått...og bruktbilprisene der nede får derfor en uvanlig knekk etter x-antall år...i forhold til det vi er vant til :) Tilgangen på JDM-Supra ser også ut til å være ganske så mye bedre en euro/us-spec supra :)
CeliNord skrev: Dere som har peiling. Så det ikke sto så mye specs på bilen, men er det
en grei pris for e RZ-S Twin Turbo Aut.? GÃ¥tt 115000, 95 modell.

Noen inspill? :oops:
Vanskelig å si noe konkret uten å se bilen fysisk...eller i det minste bilder i skikkelig høy oppløsning :) Men...prisen, forutsatt at den er i noenlunde god stand (som det jo ser ut som), høres helt grei ut den :)

 #129271  av @lpher
 
Her er en meget interesant artikkel snappet fra mkivsupra.net (forfattet av "AeroTop Dave") :)
I ditt tilfelle er det vel forsjellene på euro og jdm-Supras som er viktig :)
NB! Det artikkelen kaller UK-spec...er selvfølgelig tilsvarende som Euro-spec :) (med en eller to bittesmå...ubetydelige forskjeller:D


What are the various Supra models available and which one do I want

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Right... got all that then? So now you're probably asking 'But which one do I actually want to go for?' Okay, there are really only three main questions you need to ask yourself:

1) Do I want a UK or J spec car? (UK=Euro-spec)
2) Do I want a NA or TT model?
3) Do I want an auto or manual?


UK or J spec?
The UK versus J spec argument is all getting a bit boring these days, so let's see if we can stick to the facts and skip over personal opinions -

Det krangles en hel del om fordelene og bakdelene med JDM kontra Euro-spec hele tiden på engelske Supraforums :D

Despite the differences with the fuel injectors (440 kontro 550), turbos and overall weight (the UK car is heavier due to the extra mechanical bits), there isn't really any significant performance difference between the two. The J spec turbos spool faster, but the UK ones can take more boost. Both are very fast cars. (JDM-spec har keramiske turbiner)

The UK car has the highest overall specification, with full leather, headlamp height adjust, heated seats, etc. Some people think the headlamp washers look crap and take them off. Lyktespylere finnes ikke på Euro-spec..kun uk..thak god! :D Others think the UK bonnet scoop is cool and fit them to J specs. Fitting heated seats to a J spec is a rare mod, hardly anyone has bothered to do it. If you buy a UK car it will be fully loaded, but are these bits you actually want or need?

There are a few mechanical differences which either make the UK car better or just make for more things to go wrong depending on your point of view. None of them add significantly to the performance of the car, most are more designed to combat wear and tear. This should make the UK cars more reliable, but J Spec cars have a history of being super-reliable anyway.

The UK car has a more 'GT' setup - softer suspension, mechanical extras to counter the effects of long distance driving on the car, 'nicer' interior with air con, heated seats, full leather, etc. The J spec version is more 'street racer' - harder suspension, lighter weight, faster spooling turbos.

There are far more J specs about than UK cars. Tilgangen på JDM-biler er bra...enda ihvertfall :) This means you you'll be waiting longer for a UK car to become available (and if you want a manual UK car you'll be waiting even longer, there are very few about) Dette gjelder i alle høyeste grad alle euro-spec. , but a UK car will probably hold it's value slightly better. It also means there are more J spec cars to choose from of course (including those for sale in Japan).

J spec service history can be iffy, or even non-existant. Even if you're getting a full service history it's all in Japanese so you won't be able to make head nor tail of it. With a UK car you understand the service history and maybe even contact the garages who did it to find out more. All Toyota dealers will service the UK car, but a lot of Toyota dealers won't service the J spec. Slik er det IKKE i norge :D But a lot of owners don't trust Toyota dealers anyway.

Some J spec cars have had dodgy UK conversions - the speed limiter may still be in place (which limits you to 112mph), the speedo could be reading wrong, there may be an ugly fog light hanging off the back bumper (fog lights aren't required in Japan and are fitted to gain UK registration). Gjelder selvfølgelig ikke i norge All fixable, but all cost money. Equally there are plenty of cars around which have been converted properly (including having the fog light as part of the rear light cluster). With the UK version obviously it's all set up for the UK anyway so you don't even need to think about this aspect.

There are no UK Aerotops, Her er eurospec anderledes VVTi or NA models, so if you want any of these you won't be able to have the higher overall UK specification. N/A finnes det plenty av i usa :)

J spec cars frequently don't have the big brakes or wheels. Again fixable, but again this costs money (quite a lot actually). UK cars have them as standard. JDM-Supran fikk euro-størrelse på bremsene først i 96

Insurance on the J spec can often be prohibitively expensive, especially if you're under 25. But if you're older there's hardly any difference (you'll have more problems with insurance when it comes to declaring modifications). The UK car is more easily insured since more companies will give you a quote - a lot of companies don't even offer insurance on imported cars.

Denne delen angående forsikring gjelder heldigvis ikke oss :D

So overall there is no hard and fast rule as to which to go for. Both are great cars, both can be tuned, a lot of the extra items on the UK cars can be fitted to the J spec, but the UK car already has some of the 'standard' modifications (such as big brakes, 17" wheels, bigger fuel injectors, etc). If you're trying to decide probably the only thing you need to definitely check is the insurance as insuring a J spec can be very expensive indeed depending on your age, location and the company who you get the quote from. Those under 25 may find it's simply not possible to afford to insure a J spec and so the choice is effectively made for them.

Igjen....forsikrings-delen er anderledes i Norge :)

NA or TT?
Externally the NA Supra is identical, so it's not as if anyone will be able to tell that you have the slower model. And let's not underestimate the performance of the 3 litre NA car either - in the UK we're used to our 1.6s and 2.0s and this is a 225bhp 3 litre, so it's no slouch. Insurance is cheaper than the J spec TT too, although again there's a good chance you'll run into the import problem again with some companies. Amazingly many people have got cheaper quotes for a UK TT than for an J spec NA.

Basically the NA offers all the head turning looks of the Supra without the fuel or insurance costs, and if you're looking for an Aerotop then there are far more NA Aerotops around than TT versions, plus you could get lucky and find one of the rare facelifted Aerotops (remember, facelifted Aerotops don't exist in TT form). The interiors are pretty much identical, the only significant difference is the lack of traction control but to be honest it's pretty useless anyway and a lot of TT owners just remove it. Since the NA was the entry level model in Japan you may also find optional extras such as leather seats, the bigger brakes and the limited slip differential all missing, but obviously many of these extras can be retro-fitted.

So that just leaves the performance aspect, because while this is still a fast car it's obviously not the TT version, and you can't simply bolt on the twin turbos at a later date as there are signficant differences between the two engines. It doesn't have the devastating performance or second-turbo-kick of the TT, and that's really the key factor to think about when considering the NA. If you can live without the extra oomph, then don't dismiss the NA version.


Auto or manual?
So to round off we come to the last big decision to make - auto or manual. The Supra auto isn’t your typical ponderous auto box - this is a responsive unit with three speeds plus an overdrive and with excellent kickdown that revs all the way to the red line. In addition it has a full manual mode - press the manual button next to the gear selector and you can manually shift through the gears yourself. Having said that, there’s no doubt that if you want a more involving driving experience the manual is the one to have, in either five or six speed versions. On UK cars autos are the more plentiful variety and you could be waiting some time for a manual to become available. J spec cars are a different matter as there seems to be a good mix of both types. Most people’s first reaction on thinking about getting an auto Supra is ‘no way’, but don’t dismiss it. If you get the chance to try out both before buying then do so, as this is quite a personal thing and reactions vary greatly. Some drivers instantly fall in love with the auto while others just want to have more control and choose the manual. I was very wary of getting an auto, but now I doubt if I’d ever have a manual Supra.

Basically if you want the maximum driving involvement from your Supra then go for the manual. If you're happy to just plant your foot on the floor and have a solid 'wall' of acceleration then go auto.

Acceleration is more fun in the auto, but the corners are more fun in the manual... and there lies the problem in trying to decide
Sist redigert av @lpher den 04 sep 2005 20:25, redigert 1 gang totalt.

 #129273  av @lpher
 
Denne delen av en annen artikkel hører vel også med her :D


Why does the Japanese import version only have 280bhp?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It hasn't. The big three Japanese car manufacturers (Nissan, Honda and Toyota) came to a gentlemen's agreement to limit the power of their cars to 280bhp. This helped avoid a costly development race to design and develop ever more powerful cars. You'll find quite a few big Japanese sports cars are quoted as having 280bhp, but in reality the manufacturers simply lied about the power figures, and Toyota were no exception. The import Supra has essentially the same power output as the UK car, around 326bhp. Perfectly stock J spec Supras have been dynoed at this figure with no modifications at all, so you can assume that the two cars are identical in power output. However, since no two engines are alike, the word 'identical' shouldn't be taken literally - expect your engine to be somewhere in the 310 to 330 power range. But you won't be at a power disadvantage if you choose the import Supra over the UK version.

 #129275  av @lpher
 
...og til slutt denne delen som omhandler betegnelsene i forhold til utstyrsnivå etc :)

Okay, it's generally quite simple, it's when you get down to the options list that things get complicated. Let's do the import versions first. You've either got the normally aspirated version (generally called the NA or N/A) or the Twin Turbo (TT). The NA version comes in three flavours...

SZ-R
SZ
SZ-R Aerotop

...and the TT comes in four...

RZ-S
RZ
GZ
GZ Aerotop

So, fairly simple then. Now into this mix you've got the original UK version of the car, but this is dead simple because there's just the one model - the UK TT. There are no UK NA versions and no UK Aerotops.

However, Toyota then mucked about with the model designations of the RZ in 1995. The RZ became the RZ-S and a 'new' RZ was introduced. So for the RZs there's a bit of fiddling about to know what's what:

RZ (1993 to 1995) - the 'original' one
RZ-S (1995 to 1997) - equivalent to the 'original' one
RZ (1995 to 1997) - the 'new' one

The only reason you need to keep an eye on this is because the 'new' RZ had bigger brakes and 17" wheels as standard. But these were options on the 'old' RZ and RZ-S anyway so you might find these models with these extras fitted too. This is actually a perfect introduction to the unpredictable world of the Supra options list - model designations and options is a tricky area to cover as there is a lot of conflicting information around. The problem is that a lot of the info online is in Japanese, and much of the remaining info applies to the US models, and they have market-specific versions such as the SE (Special Edition, which contrary to what you might expect to find on a special edition version actually had all the extras stripped out and was effectively a 'super basic' version) and also the 15th Anniversary model that simply had extra badges on the outside! However, we're most interested in the right hand drive versions, and from here on in things get a bit woolly...

Firstly it's worth pointing out that although the Toyota sales brochures list what the various options are on each model there seems to be a tremendous amount of overlap and very little is set in stone. Maybe the local Toyota dealers were happy to bung on whatever the customer wanted, or maybe the customers themselves bought and fitted extra bits - who knows. The Japanese love to customise their cars, and also bear in mind that owners in the UK put on extra bits and bobs too. With some cars having passed through 3 or 4 owners it's no wonder it's getting tricky to work out what is original, what was a factory fitted option, and what was fitted by a previous owner. There are also some little quirks such as certain options being dependant on if you have a manual or auto gearbox even though they both have the same model description. Bung in Toyota's own fiddling about with the RZ models and you start to get an idea of how difficult this subject area is and why it appears there is no definitive source of info.

The UK TT has several important differences to the J-Spec versions - full leather (the GZ also has 'full' leather but the rear seats are actually leather-look vinyl), heated front seats, headlamp washers, bonnet air scoop, plus several other more technical differences. The facelift Supras again have several differences that are worth looking out for on the cosmetic side of things. The most important mechanical difference was the introduction of the VVTi engine. The Variable Valve Timing ('intelligent' - hence VVTi) gives an extra 5bhp on the NA version and 25bhp on the TT. The other major mechanical difference was the introduction of the Tiptronic gearbox - this can be left to act as a full auto gearbox or you can manually change the gears using two buttons on the steering wheel. Tiptronic cars are still relatively scarce in the UK.

When you go to look at a car probably the best advice you can have is to treat each car as effectively a unique model. And because the optional extras list is so varied sellers frequently get the designation incorrect anyway, so take more notice of the actual extras listed and not the model identification.

So, the key points to remember are...

The UK model is the highest spec of all.
The GZ model is the highest spec Import version.
There are no UK Aerotops
There are no UK NAs
There are no UK Facelift models
There are no UK Tiptronic models
There are no manual Aerotops (yes, you read that right - all Aerotops have automatic gearboxes, both NAs and TTs)
VVTi models are all facelifted
Tiptronic models are all facelifted

Understanding the J spec model designations is a little tricky but okay once you get the hang of it.

The SZ-R is the base model. NA engine, 5 or 6 speed manual gearbox only, and a limited range of optional extras.
The SZ is the top-spec NA hardtop model. NA engine, auto, 5 or 6 speed manual gearbox, a few more options.
The SZ-R Aerotop is the only NA Aerotop model. NA engine, auto only, a few more options.
(so the SZ has more standard fittings than the SZ-R, but the SZ-R Aerotop has the same fittings as the SZ)

The 'original' RZ is the entry level TT model. TT engine, auto or 6 speed manual, limited range of optional extras.
The RZ-S replaces the RZ as the entry level TT model. TT engine, auto or 6 speed manual, limited range of options.
The 'new' RZ is the middle spec TT version. TT engine, 6 speed manual only, a few more options.
The GZ (inc. Aerotop) is the top-spec TT model. TT engine, auto only, some options fitted as standard.
(when the GZ stopped production the RZ became the top spec model)


The attached Excel chart gives what I believe to be a pretty accurate documentation of the various model differences available, having been pulled together from sources scattered around the interweb. This covers the NA, TT, Facelift NA, Facelift TT and UK TT versions - basically anything right hand drive. Note that on this chart I've marked the facelifted cars as starting in 1998 since this was when the 'full' facelift took place (cosmetic + mechanical changes). It's also worth noting the oddity of 1996 Supra production - it appears that Toyota were gearing up for the facelift and decided to ditch a number of options. The wood or carbon fibre dashboard panelling was unavailable this year (presumably so Toyota wouldn't have to manufacture a new supply of pre-facelift dashboard pieces and run the danger of having some left over that they couldn't sell), and the electric drivers seat was unavailable on many models as well (although in most cases somewhat oddly it was a standard fitting pre-1996 and was a standard fitting again from 1997 onwards - quite why it couldn't be fitted in 1996 is a bit of a mystery). 1996 appears to be the year that the options list was revised as this marks the year when many options became standard. Items such as airbags, leather seats and ABS either went from optional to standard to from unavailable to optional. So as far as can be determined Supra production looked something like this:

1993 - Supra introduced in UK and Japan.
J spec range: SZ, RZ, GZ, GZ Aerotop.

1994 - SZ-R introduced in hardtop and Aerotop versions. 17" wheels and bigger brakes available as optional extras on all J spec models.
J spec range: SZ, SZ-R, SZ-R Aerotop, RZ, GZ, GZ Aerotop.

1995 - RZ-S introduced to replace 'original' RZ. 'New' RZ is manual gearbox only with 17" wheels, bigger brakes and active spoiler as standard. Last TT Aerotops produced.
J spec range: SZ, SZ-R, SZ-R Aerotop, RZ-S, RZ, GZ, GZ Aerotop.

1996 - Last GZ models produced. Some previously standard fittings unavailable on some models. First cosmetically facelifted cars start to appear. UK model ceases production.
J spec range: SZ, SZ-R, SZ-R Aerotop, RZ-S, RZ, GZ

1997 - Some fittings go from unavailable to optional or from optional to standard. VVTi, Tiptronic gearbox and REAS all introduced. RZ model now has Recaro seats.
J spec range: SZ, SZ-R, SZ-R Aerotop, RZ-S, RZ

1998 - Last SZ-R Aerotops produced.
J spec range: SZ, SZ-R, RZ-S, RZ

2002 - Supra production ceases.
J spec range: SZ, SZ-R, RZ-S, RZ

 #129276  av @lpher
 
Denne var ganske forklarende også :D

Igjen...fra mkivsupra.net :)
Vedlegg
(114.97 kiB) Lastet ned 167 ganger

 #129299  av CeliNord
 
Tusen takk for et meget utfyllende svar =)

Har lest igjennom og blitt en god del klokere ja.
Har også tatt vare på teksten i tilfelle det skulle skje noe med posten :)

Må vel høre med Japan Auto om man kan få bedre bilder av bilen.
Litt vanskelig å ta en svipptur ned til Fredrikstad når man bor i Nordland.

Må vel også kontakte biltilsynet og høre litt. Litt kjipt om man får kjøpt
bilen, så begynner de å være vanskelig (er vel ikke første gang).
Det jeg lurte på om det var noe jeg burde være obs på.
Tenkte å bare kjøpe bilen så standard som mulig og få den godkjent og så
gå amok ;) :twisted:

Noen andre som vet det om reg. avgiften? om det ikke lurer flere
skjulte avgifter.
På siden står det 98 lapper for bilen og 127 for engangsavgift og 8 for registrering.

 #129345  av @lpher
 
CeliNord skrev: Tusen takk for et meget utfyllende svar =)

Har lest igjennom og blitt en god del klokere ja.
No prob :) Er derfor vi har dette forumet :)
CeliNord skrev:
Har også tatt vare på teksten i tilfelle det skulle skje noe med posten :)
LOL :D ...denne tråden blir værende den....rent hypotetisk...lenge etter at du har solgt supran igjen :D
CeliNord skrev:
Må vel høre med Japan Auto om man kan få bedre bilder av bilen.
Det kan jo være en begynnelse :)
CeliNord skrev:
Litt vanskelig å ta en svipptur ned til Fredrikstad når man bor i Nordland.
Du har ingen kjentfolk som kan ta en titt på den for deg da?
CeliNord skrev:
Må vel også kontakte biltilsynet og høre litt. Litt kjipt om man får kjøpt
bilen, så begynner de å være vanskelig (er vel ikke første gang).
Sant nok...
CeliNord skrev:
Det jeg lurte på om det var noe jeg burde være obs på.
Det enkleste er vel at det bilen er så standard som mulig... :)
CeliNord skrev:
Tenkte å bare kjøpe bilen så standard som mulig og få den godkjent og så
gå amok ;) :twisted:
Riktig :D
CeliNord skrev:
Noen andre som vet det om reg. avgiften? om det ikke lurer flere
skjulte avgifter.
Anyone?
CeliNord skrev:
På siden står det 98 lapper for bilen og 127 for engangsavgift og 8 for registrering.
KOm frem til omtrent det samme jeg også :)
 #129458  av supraespen
 
Jeg har akkurat kjøpt meg en Supra fra japan jeg oxo så jeg kan fortelle deg litt av det jeg fikk mangellapp på. Du må ha Tuv papirer, noe som Tom Ole i Japan Auto eller du kan høre med Turboknut så fikser de det til deg. Blinklysene på forskjermen og beltene må være E-merket. Du må oxo bytte hovedlykter. Ellers så går det veldig greit å få regget dem :D
Jeg var å så på den bilen du vurderer,og den virker veldig bra :D

 #129495  av CeliNord
 
Hørtes supert ut.

SÃ¥ i ekstrakostnader blir det vel:
*tuv papirene for ca 3000.
* 4-5000 pr hovedlykt.
* Belter/blinkelys.

Rundet opp til 17-18 000.

Da var det bare om man sku kjøpe hos JA eller prøve å importere selv.
Har sett noen biler på mobile.de som ligger på 6900 og 9000 euro.

For en 97 modell TT (venstrestyrt) og er gått 80000km:
9000 euro = 72000NOK + 25% = 90 000.
(kommer seff frakt i tillegg)

Vil da tro at det er bedre enn en fra JA, 95modell som har gått 115000 for
98 000 kr.

Eller det kan jo hende at den annonsen er fake. Er ikke så inne på
priser:
Kode: Velg alt
http://www.mobile.de/SIDCxNDNjFfLTDlhKPZXPUMUA-t-vaNexlCsAsCsK%F3P%F3R~BmSB11Iindex_cgiJ1125939868A1Iindex_cgiD1100CCarY-t-vctpLtt~BmPA1B21B20B49%81J-t-vCaMkMoSeSmVb_X_Y_x_y~BSRA6D1100E24100EsupraCPKWESUPRAHinPublicA2A0A0A0/cgi-bin/da.pl?bereich=pkw&top=30&id=11111111179697854&

 #129509  av Turbotrille
 
Det er falske annonser ja, Euro supra ligger mer i landet rundt 20.000 euro. :?

 #129570  av supraespen
 
ja dette er en typisk fake annonse... JA kan også ordne bil ferdig registrert. det er like greit for at det er forskjellig fra biltilsyn til biltilsyn hva dem er kresne på ..

lykter får du til 3000 per stk, blinklys er 150 per stk, belter, kan man fikse på en annen måte så lenge de er e - merket.
prisen for RHD TT er ikke så gæren..

 #129572  av CeliNord
 
Kjempemessig.
Skal prøve å sende JA en mail eller prøve å få kontakt på en eller annen måte :D .

Kanskje like greit å få dem til å registrere om de ikke ska ha så mye for jobben.
_Vet_ at biltilsynet her er helt ville :P.
Ble nærmest nedkjeftet da jeg lurte på om jeg kunne få et mindre skilt foran på celica'n :roll:

Må vel også få solgt mk6'n om jeg vil realisere drømmen, men det blir vel neppe noe problem :)

 #129686  av supraespen
 
JA pleier ikke ta noe for jobben, de er veldig snille der :D Jeg prøver å godkjenne den selv så det ikke så mye stress :wink: Lykke til og gi gjerne beskjed åssen det går